Comments on: Is Ubuntu ready for the mainstream? http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream Sun, 20 Jul 2008 17:05:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Lettre Hebdomadaire Ubuntu n°85 du 30 mars au 5 avril 2008. « Lettre Hebdomadaire Ubuntu http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11835 Lettre Hebdomadaire Ubuntu n°85 du 30 mars au 5 avril 2008. « Lettre Hebdomadaire Ubuntu Wed, 09 Apr 2008 21:32:49 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11835 [...] Ubuntu est-elle prête pour le grand public ? - Jeff abandonne Windows pour Ubuntu, mais il pense qu’aucune distribution ne sera prête pour le grand public tant que la console sera encore nécessaire pour installer quelque chose. [...] […] Ubuntu est-elle prête pour le grand public ? - Jeff abandonne Windows pour Ubuntu, mais il pense qu’aucune distribution ne sera prête pour le grand public tant que la console sera encore nécessaire pour installer quelque chose. […]

]]> By: Jeff http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11830 Jeff Mon, 07 Apr 2008 19:53:56 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11830 I hope CNR sticks around, it just seems like a ghost town over on their discussion forums. And after reading Kevin Carmony's blog it has made me wonder if Mr. Robertson is just going to watch as his Linux companies crumble. I hope CNR sticks around, it just seems like a ghost town over on their discussion forums. And after reading Kevin Carmony’s blog it has made me wonder if Mr. Robertson is just going to watch as his Linux companies crumble.

]]> By: manny http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11827 manny Mon, 07 Apr 2008 19:33:54 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11827 um, even if the linspire proyect ends, CNR.com will stick around since it doesn't actually depends directly on linspire. They're making CNR part of their business for distribution of commercial software and free services. It might become the biggest software portal linux related >"It was a move in the right direction, but it still involves a centralized location that needs to be maintained, which doesn’t seem very sustainable as a long term solution" yea.. it's their business am sure they'll want to keep it that way. Their goal is to keep it as "centralized" as possible. Businesses like that word: centralized. It's not really a "real" solution for everyone but it should get em users/clients.. freespire might also still be around since it's a community proyect. So as long as users want, it will get continued. It's kubuntu based so it's not too hard to keep it going. Anyway freespire were among the first (that i know of) to include a direct installer from the CD without needing to wait for the desktop to load. We're now seeing this feature in hardy, which is really nice :) i guess distros do learn from each other. um, even if the linspire proyect ends, CNR.com will stick around since it doesn’t actually depends directly on linspire. They’re making CNR part of their business for distribution of commercial software and free services. It might become the biggest software portal linux related

>”It was a move in the right direction, but it still involves a centralized location that needs to be maintained, which doesn’t seem very sustainable as a long term solution”

yea.. it’s their business am sure they’ll want to keep it that way. Their goal is to keep it as “centralized” as possible. Businesses like that word: centralized. It’s not really a “real” solution for everyone but it should get em users/clients..

freespire might also still be around since it’s a community proyect. So as long as users want, it will get continued. It’s kubuntu based so it’s not too hard to keep it going.

Anyway freespire were among the first (that i know of) to include a direct installer from the CD without needing to wait for the desktop to load.

We’re now seeing this feature in hardy, which is really nice :)

i guess distros do learn from each other.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11825 Jeff Mon, 07 Apr 2008 11:38:50 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11825 Manny - I used to use CNR.com when I was helping beta test for Lindows/Linspire. It was a move in the right direction, but it still involves a centralized location that needs to be maintained, which doesn't seem very sustainable as a long term solution. But it certainly makes software easy to install. I saw that CNR has a 32-bit version for Ubuntu currently, but they are still developing the 64-bit CNR client. I couldn't find any potential release dates for a 64-bit client either, in fact it seems as though CNR won't provide any estimates which is rather frustrating on the user side. I had also heard that Kevin Carmony believes that Michael Robertson's Linspire and Freespire projects will be ending soon, which makes me wonder if CNR.com would fold as well if this happens. Manny - I used to use CNR.com when I was helping beta test for Lindows/Linspire. It was a move in the right direction, but it still involves a centralized location that needs to be maintained, which doesn’t seem very sustainable as a long term solution. But it certainly makes software easy to install. I saw that CNR has a 32-bit version for Ubuntu currently, but they are still developing the 64-bit CNR client. I couldn’t find any potential release dates for a 64-bit client either, in fact it seems as though CNR won’t provide any estimates which is rather frustrating on the user side. I had also heard that Kevin Carmony believes that Michael Robertson’s Linspire and Freespire projects will be ending soon, which makes me wonder if CNR.com would fold as well if this happens.

]]> By: manny http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11824 manny Mon, 07 Apr 2008 04:23:38 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11824 @Jeff um yes, openlina may have a performance hit on old hardware, but should not be too different as that of Java virtual machine. they're really aiming high, they want linux software not only to work on all distros equally, they also want it to run in windows and mac... and they seem to be getting it right :D It will be an interesting proyect. Also, CNR.com will be a multidistro friendly software download client. If you use, for example, Ubuntu at home and fedora at work, you will be able to get the same software and versions installed on both machines without much fuss. It's still beta but is coming along ;) the world of FOSS is very exciting and makes stuff like that possible. the future is very bright, you never know what cool proyects pops up next. Am really glad i could had been of some help :) @Jeff

um yes, openlina may have a performance hit on old hardware, but should not be too different as that of Java virtual machine.

they’re really aiming high, they want linux software not only to work on all distros equally, they also want it to run in windows and mac… and they seem to be getting it right :D

It will be an interesting proyect.

Also, CNR.com will be a multidistro friendly software download client.

If you use, for example, Ubuntu at home and fedora at work, you will be able to get the same software and versions installed on both machines without much fuss. It’s still beta but is coming along ;)

the world of FOSS is very exciting and makes stuff like that possible.

the future is very bright, you never know what cool proyects pops up next.

Am really glad i could had been of some help :)

]]> By: Jeff http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11822 Jeff Mon, 07 Apr 2008 00:01:30 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11822 Open Lina looks like a really nice solution. I wonder if there will be any performance issues since applications will be run in a second layer on top of the OS. I was unfamiliar with this project before your comment. :) Thanks for the info. Open Lina looks like a really nice solution. I wonder if there will be any performance issues since applications will be run in a second layer on top of the OS.

I was unfamiliar with this project before your comment. :) Thanks for the info.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11821 Jeff Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:26:58 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11821 Manny - Thanks for letting me know this blog post is in this weeks Ubuntu Newsletter. I am really surprised. Thanks for the additional information regarding compiz. This helps explain why the advanced settings are not installed by default. I didn't realize compiz was still in beta and still has some significant issues on some users hardware. Knowing this I realize I was too critical regarding it not being in the default install. I am also glad to hear that there are others that have made similar comments as mine and that there are projects out there working on solutions. And I will check out zero-install, I hadn't run across this project before. And you are correct that simply discussing something doesn't solve the problems, and that getting involved in a solution is a much better approach. Thanks for the feedback. :) Manny - Thanks for letting me know this blog post is in this weeks Ubuntu Newsletter. I am really surprised.

Thanks for the additional information regarding compiz. This helps explain why the advanced settings are not installed by default. I didn’t realize compiz was still in beta and still has some significant issues on some users hardware. Knowing this I realize I was too critical regarding it not being in the default install.

I am also glad to hear that there are others that have made similar comments as mine and that there are projects out there working on solutions. And I will check out zero-install, I hadn’t run across this project before. And you are correct that simply discussing something doesn’t solve the problems, and that getting involved in a solution is a much better approach.

Thanks for the feedback. :)

]]> By: manny http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11820 manny Sun, 06 Apr 2008 23:10:50 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11820 oh, these 2 threads might give you some insight for auto compiling tools: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=358123 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=271107&highlight=kompile anyway a better solution to uniting all distros is this: Openlina ! some youtube videos and articles around it's either Openlina, zeroinstall or Ubuntu fully dominates the Desktop linux world (.debs would be the norm). anyway openlina will come in first than the 2 other options. oh, these 2 threads might give you some insight for auto compiling tools:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=358123

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=271107&highlight=kompile

anyway a better solution to uniting all distros is this:
Openlina !

some youtube videos and articles around

it’s either Openlina, zeroinstall or Ubuntu fully dominates the Desktop linux world (.debs would be the norm).

anyway openlina will come in first than the 2 other options.

]]> By: manny http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11819 manny Sun, 06 Apr 2008 22:23:09 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11819 hi jeff, the problem with compiz fussion, is that it's still beta. Most of the plugins are still in development. if you create a "bad combination" that's not supported by your graphics card, than it will give you a blank screen that could be permanent every time you log in. thus, u would need to uninstall compiz by going to the terminal in safe graphics mode. In the times of beryl i fiddled too much with the settings and broke it... now is more robust, but still not perfect. They haven't even reached v1.0 so thats to be expected and that's why that tool is not included by default. Windows Vista only has a few effects. While compiz has dozens and dozens of combinations which could break on unsupported hardware. Ubuntu only includes (like vista) effects known to work. Am sure they will include a more fail-safe utility in the future. "Ubuntu-tweak" is now including a simpler tool for this (but is not finished). http://getdeb.net/app/Ubuntu+Tweak so don't get mad at the ubuntu devs. It's not their fault, they're just safe guarding the most novice users and avoid potential problems for them. and about the software install from source thing there are a few proyects around (like software compilation with a GUI, instead of the terminal) also, zero-install looks promising (but not perfect either): http://0install.net/ also giving out ideas is one thing (it's not the fist time i see your exact same ideas commented), you also need to get involved as much as possible in these proyects (even if it's not coding) anyway nice blog, i would like to hear from you more in the future :) hi jeff,

the problem with compiz fussion, is that it’s still beta.

Most of the plugins are still in development.

if you create a “bad combination” that’s not supported by your graphics card, than it will give you a blank screen that could be permanent every time you log in. thus, u would need to uninstall compiz by going to the terminal in safe graphics mode.

In the times of beryl i fiddled too much with the settings and broke it… now is more robust, but still not perfect. They haven’t even reached v1.0 so thats to be expected and that’s why that tool is not included by default.

Windows Vista only has a few effects. While compiz has dozens and dozens of combinations which could break on unsupported hardware. Ubuntu only includes (like vista) effects known to work.

Am sure they will include a more fail-safe utility in the future. “Ubuntu-tweak” is now including a simpler tool for this (but is not finished).
http://getdeb.net/app/Ubuntu+Tweak

so don’t get mad at the ubuntu devs. It’s not their fault, they’re just safe guarding the most novice users and avoid potential problems for them.

and about the software install from source thing there are a few proyects around (like software compilation with a GUI, instead of the terminal)

also, zero-install looks promising (but not perfect either):
http://0install.net/

also giving out ideas is one thing (it’s not the fist time i see your exact same ideas commented), you also need to get involved as much as possible in these proyects (even if it’s not coding)

anyway nice blog, i would like to hear from you more in the future :)

]]> By: manny http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11818 manny Sun, 06 Apr 2008 21:58:47 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11818 you're in this weeks newsletter :) https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue85 you’re in this weeks newsletter :)
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue85

]]> By: Jeff http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11812 Jeff Fri, 04 Apr 2008 12:33:18 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11812 Christer - Thanks for this info. The terminal command to get this working is rather simple and isn't a huge deal. I am just surprised that since compiz is installed that the compiz-manager is not. It took a bit of google searching and running through a lot of discussion forum posts before I learned that I simply needed to install the compiz-manager package. Your tutorial is excellent and got all of the bells and whistles of compiz into my hands. Thank you for your tutorial. Christer - Thanks for this info. The terminal command to get this working is rather simple and isn’t a huge deal. I am just surprised that since compiz is installed that the compiz-manager is not. It took a bit of google searching and running through a lot of discussion forum posts before I learned that I simply needed to install the compiz-manager package. Your tutorial is excellent and got all of the bells and whistles of compiz into my hands. Thank you for your tutorial.

]]> By: Christer Edwards http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11810 Christer Edwards Thu, 03 Apr 2008 21:14:51 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11810 I should make it more clear on my site, my mistake, but concerning the instructions to install 'compizconfig-settings-manager' you should be able to simply click the link in the instructions and a graphical utility will ask if you want to install it. This is done via a system called 'apturl', which recognizes package names and installs them apt via a url. This was introduced in Ubuntu 7.10. I have tried to use those links throughout the Ubuntu Tutorials site, but unless you're familiar with them I suppose they may not be recognized.. I should make it more clear on my site, my mistake, but concerning the instructions to install ‘compizconfig-settings-manager’ you should be able to simply click the link in the instructions and a graphical utility will ask if you want to install it.

This is done via a system called ‘apturl’, which recognizes package names and installs them apt via a url. This was introduced in Ubuntu 7.10. I have tried to use those links throughout the Ubuntu Tutorials site, but unless you’re familiar with them I suppose they may not be recognized..

]]> By: Jeff http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11809 Jeff Thu, 03 Apr 2008 13:13:38 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11809 lefty.crupps - I believe this is the very point I made. There are a lot of different Linux distributions so it is not practical by any means for someone to make a package for each and every distribution. This is why there needs to be a simple GUI interface for click and install that will compile the application and grab any needed dependencies behind the scenes. The current solution is for each distribution to maintain repositories of applications that work for their distribution. Ubuntu is doing a great job with this with a ton of applications available for easy installation. However, this is not a practical long term approach. The repositories will continue to get bigger and each application will have revisions, so it will always be a never ending game of catch up. It would be far more practical for users to download the application from the vendor and compile it on their own without needing to be an expert. A GUI interface for this and a process for grabing dependencies required for the compile to be successful makes far more sense. Users are very familiar with installing software on either Windows or OS X, so download and click or download and drag are considered 'easy' methods of installation. For the typical user the terminal is non-intuitive, and will turn them away from Linux very quickly. I honestly do not believe that Linux can become mainstream until this happens. lefty.crupps - I believe this is the very point I made. There are a lot of different Linux distributions so it is not practical by any means for someone to make a package for each and every distribution. This is why there needs to be a simple GUI interface for click and install that will compile the application and grab any needed dependencies behind the scenes. The current solution is for each distribution to maintain repositories of applications that work for their distribution. Ubuntu is doing a great job with this with a ton of applications available for easy installation. However, this is not a practical long term approach. The repositories will continue to get bigger and each application will have revisions, so it will always be a never ending game of catch up. It would be far more practical for users to download the application from the vendor and compile it on their own without needing to be an expert. A GUI interface for this and a process for grabing dependencies required for the compile to be successful makes far more sense. Users are very familiar with installing software on either Windows or OS X, so download and click or download and drag are considered ‘easy’ methods of installation. For the typical user the terminal is non-intuitive, and will turn them away from Linux very quickly. I honestly do not believe that Linux can become mainstream until this happens.

]]> By: lefty.crupps http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11808 lefty.crupps Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:47:33 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11808 > Because no one should ever need to go into the terminal > to install something, ever Sorry, I disagree. If for no other reason than this means that everyone must provide *buntu packages or the *buntu teams must be very busy packaging everything out there. Ubuntu is not the only Linux, you know. > Because no one should ever need to go into the terminal
> to install something, ever

Sorry, I disagree. If for no other reason than this means that everyone must provide *buntu packages or the *buntu teams must be very busy packaging everything out there. Ubuntu is not the only Linux, you know.

]]> By: Jeff http://www.thebristows.com/blog/tech/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11807 Jeff Thu, 03 Apr 2008 12:40:23 +0000 http://www.thebristows.com/blog/opinions/is-ubuntu-ready-for-the-mainstream#comment-11807 I understand than many of my issues are related to using 64 bit, and I am not concerned about that. My issue is that there was no GUI to help resolve the issues that I had. Utilizing a terminal session to install software is fine for me, but it isn't fine for 99% of computer users, and because of this I do not believe that Linux is ready for the masses. And if you find a new application written for Linux and there is no 32 bit .deb file you would find yourself in the same boat as I am with 64 bit Ubuntu. The terminal is very powerful, but it is not for the typical user, so it shouldn't need to be used for a typical process like installing software or configuring hardware settings. I understand that compiz only works if you graphics card has GFX support. My only issue (rather minor) is that although compiz is installed the advanced settings menu (compiz manager) is not. It makes far more sense to also have the compiz manager installed so that when the user enables the advanced effects that they can make changes to those effects without needing to try and figure out what they need to install so that they can have those effects. I understand than many of my issues are related to using 64 bit, and I am not concerned about that. My issue is that there was no GUI to help resolve the issues that I had. Utilizing a terminal session to install software is fine for me, but it isn’t fine for 99% of computer users, and because of this I do not believe that Linux is ready for the masses. And if you find a new application written for Linux and there is no 32 bit .deb file you would find yourself in the same boat as I am with 64 bit Ubuntu. The terminal is very powerful, but it is not for the typical user, so it shouldn’t need to be used for a typical process like installing software or configuring hardware settings.

I understand that compiz only works if you graphics card has GFX support. My only issue (rather minor) is that although compiz is installed the advanced settings menu (compiz manager) is not. It makes far more sense to also have the compiz manager installed so that when the user enables the advanced effects that they can make changes to those effects without needing to try and figure out what they need to install so that they can have those effects.

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